Really too bad about Hitch having undermined his own credibility so badly. He's dead on about the hypocritical moral loathsomeness of Christian Zionism and George Bush's abuses of faith, but it's a little late for him to be noticing these things.

Do kind of admire that he manages to be so articulate despite being obviously scarpered, though.

To be fair, though, he was all het up on the issue of religion long before he threw in with the neo-cons. Not like he's saying anything there that he hasn't been saying all along.

He's mostly dead-on, but I don't beleive for a minute that Falwell was a self-conscious fraud. He believed every word he said, as did his supporters. That's what makes the issue so intractible.

You really think he believed in it, Brock? I think he was a fraud and knew he was a fraud and laughed like a big fucking fraud every time he checked his bank balance.

Either that he was just fucking crazy.

Not to veer off-topic, but I am ever so unsurprised that he's not on artificial breathing machines, etc., to demonstrate the ideal of a culture of life.

I really, really think he believed it, every word. Him and millions of others just like him. To think otherwise seems very unfamiliar with the type.

I dunno. I'm inclined to believe that Falwell was a self-conscious fraud. I mean, he took over PTL from Jim and Tammy Bakker in the 1980's for crying out loud! My history leads me to believe that it takes a sincere evangelical fundamentalist's mindset to believe all the wild ass shit that has trickled from Falwell's mouth. And an individual who is that naive would not have the capacity to build a "Christian Zionist" empire.

Do you believe Pat Robertson is genuine too?

But I must give credit to Falwell. I've always believed that his piousness was unmatched by any other public personality during my living memory.

I'm no longer a Christian, but I do remember from biblical scripture that the only time Mr. Jesus kicked someone's ass was when he wildly beat the merchants at the temple... And that is how I view the likes of Falwell and Robertson - temple merchants. If the afterlife Falwell preached about is real, then Jesus is probably quite busy kicking his ass right now.

I hope he is forced to spend eternity with all the deceased members of the Palestinian National Authority.

" Good riddance to a thoroughly malevolent person" ... and not a day too soon

I hope he is forced to spend eternity with all the deceased members of the Palestinian National Authority.

Not to mention the victims of apartheid.

Jeez, people, can't you have at least as much class as Larry Flynt?:

"My mother always told me that no matter how much you dislike a person, when you meet them face to face you will find characteristics about them that you like. Jerry Falwell was a perfect example of that. I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends. He would visit me in California and we would debate together on college campuses. I always appreciated his sincerity even though I knew what he was selling and he knew what I was selling."

Nope. Not having to carry Flynt's burden of dealing with Falwell face to face, I am free to judge the man by his public works. He was an objectively horrible person who spent his entire much-too-long adult life making the United States a more hateful, bigoted place and trying to enshrine that hatefulness and bigotry as law. I don't see any reason to treat him as anything other than what he was.

I'll treat Jerry Falwell with exactly the same respect I treat Fred Phelps with when he dies. Despite Falwell's more professional gloss, the two men are playing the same game.

They say you shouldn't say nothing about the dead unless it's good.

He's dead.

Good.

One friend of mine is hoping that Phelps protests outside of Falwell's funeral

One friend of mine is hoping that Phelps protests outside of Falwell's funeral

That would be funny.

And you expressed doubt that God answers prayers?

Phelps to protest Falwell funeral

I really, really think he believed it, every word. Him and millions of others just like him. To think otherwise seems very unfamiliar with the type.

I am plenty familiar with the true believer type, but I don't see that in him. Still, either way: six feet under beats running his yap any day of the week and whether he believed it or not the kinds of things he did and said undoubtedly increased hate, intimidation, discrimination and suffering in our country and elsewhere in the world.

Jeez, people, can't you have at least as much class as Larry Flynt?

Flynt has his experience and I have mine. Mine is that Falwell built a career, a political movement, many churches and a university on the back of hating me. I'm way past the point of class. I've been past the point of class for most of my life on this guy and every other fucker like him.

Fred Phelps is 76- who's going to protest his funeral? Got to be the biggest, gayest group you can think of. Perhaps the unfoggedetariat.

I just watched the Hitchens video. More evidence for my point that a solid argument is always more effective when it's delivered in a calm voice. Plus the accent doesn't hurt.

GB wants us to have CLASS (like Larry Flynn!) While we bid Falwell farewell. For once I have to agree with GB's pernicious, humanistic moral relativism.

What's wrong is wrong, but we should be able to see a little bit of ourselves in each sinner, and no man is beyond redemption - even if like Falwell they have done far more harm than good.

I suspect that Falwell must have at times recognized and acknowledged his own evil bigotry, even while engaging in self-deception and -justification most of the time to preserve a sense of self-worth. Which of us does not do the same, though on a more modest and less public scale?

Bill-O thinks we should wait until the shovels are put away before we start piling on. Apo, you wouldn't want to let down Bill-O now, would you?

I'd like to hit Bill-O with the shovel before I put it away.

I think "O-Rei" is a superior moniker for that sack of shit. Don't put the shovel away, apo, pass it around.

Great article on Falwell by the other Nuge.

Falwell is at least sincere in his faith, unlike Pat Robertson who is the real monster.

Jerry Falwell has had some good and noble things to say on some occasions. Other things he said have been very twisted and un-Christian, hate-filled and bigoted. I do not condemn the man to hell but as a Catholic I think he may have a difficult time keeping his skin from melting off in "decades" of purgatory.

Hitchens every now and then sobers up barely enough to let loose a few intentional funnies. This might be one of those occasions.