Well, if you want to be honest, he could just be talking the revisionist ideals to an extreme.

From a scientific point of view, there are massive holes in the holocaust evaluation. Initially it was said that six million had died at Auschwitz alone. That number has been steadily decreasing since the war, and now stands somewhere around 1 million. It will probably keep going down.

The biggest issue is that there has been no genuine forensic examination of the holocaust. The Krakow reports were both deeply flawed, failing to examine Prussian Blue formation in the delousing rooms, and using poor methods to test for cyanide presence in the gas chambers.

In reality the holocaust probably happened. And a shitload of Jewish people were murdered. There still remains the question of why we have not fully examined the incident to fully answer all these questions, and to better understand exactly how it happened.

The Leuchter report, and the Rudolf paper both claim that the Gas chambers could never have been used as such. Leuchter designed gas chambers all over the U.S. but is not an expert on anything(technically) so his opinion can be dismissed. International History Review sought fit to publish his findings however, and he is supported in his conclusions by numerous other scientists.

Germar Rudolf does carry a Phd, and there has been no substantial denials about the truth of his conclusions( except from those he discredits).

The Leucther and Rudolf papers are both easily found online.

As an aside, Leucther gave testimony in Canada at the trial of Zundel, was qualified as an expert in gas chambers, and had none of his facts challenged by the crown. These statements are all a matter of public record.

In closing, we all need to accept the fact that there has not been a complete forensic examination of the holocaust. There is a case to be made that there may not have been massacre's on any scale as large as we have all been led to believe. That Jews were treated vicously in Europe is not in question, that many died is also not in doubt. But how many, where, and why should be asked and answered. It is not that we do not possess the ability to answer these questions, it is that they are not even allowed to be asked.

Virtually all reputable sources report 6m Jews dead in the Holocaust. This figure seems pretty rock solid. Where have you seen it being revised down? I've also never heard the "6m at Auschwitz alone" version. What's your source for that? And anyone who has seen Leuchter in this documentary knows the guy's a few cards short of a full deck.

Why has there not been "a complete forensic examination of the holocaust"? Because it happened during a war. Pretty big one, as these things go. What with all the fighting and such, the cops just couldn't get in there and cordon off the death camps with yellow crime scene tape. Nor were they able to draw chalk outlines around all six million bodies and wait for the CSI team to show up.

Get real.

Hahaha.

OMFG, tweedledopey. That is amazing.

Reminds me of an old sketch from "The State", I think.

The 6m at Auschwitz came directly from Soviet materials. It was made on May 8th 1945 by the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission, and claimed that 5.1 million people were killed at Auschwitz. My apologies for a small amount of hyperbole.

That the holocaust happened cannot be disputed. But if we can critically approach the ethnic cleansings that have occured since in an attempt to establish how many died, where they died, and by whom they were murdered, then so it must be done with the holocaust. Almost all of the evidence of the holocaust is from second hand knowledge, or from incomplete eyewitness statements. That there are motives for people to lie in those situations is obvious. Therefore there must be factual evidence of how it all happened.

War can complicate all things, but it should not erase the need for truth. People should never accept something blindly as truth. If you believed what the American government says about Iraq things are going relatively smoothly, and progress is being made. The reality is quite different. Towing the "official" line is not for those who seek the truth.

Trying to be sarcastic makes you a tool.

What does it matter whether six million were killed or six thousand? I really don't understand why this is worth arguing.

Invoking the Holocaust for any purpose beyond an admonition to play nice is just dangerous. It matters how many died, but not for the support a number gives to any opinion about Israel. Israel is a fact on the ground, it's not relocating, whether the Holocaust killed 6 million Jews, or just Uncle Morty and Aunt Sadie.

BTW, the Soviets, after sustaining truly profane loss of life and terrific abuses at the hands of Germany, had quite a bone to pick with the German people (as is evidenced by their pillaging of what was left of German cities and scientific intelligencia, as well as the wholesale raping of many German women). Therefore I think we can easily discredit most reports coming from the Soviets directly at the end of the war as either emotionally overblown or intentionally skewed by their propoganda machine in order to justify their clamp-down on the German people in the east.

Regardless, you are all correct in that the exact number doesn't really matter. "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." -- Josef Stalin

Andrew, first of all, it's "toeing the line", not "towing".

Your silly post truly merited a sarcastic response. In what other war in history has "a complete forensic examination" of the atrocities been conducted? None. That kind of thing doesn't happen in wartime. Insisting on an unreasonable standard of proof for atrocities that even you yourself acknowledge happened is rather tool-worthy behavior, I'm afraid.

On the other hand, if you really think there's no "factual evidence" for the Holocaust, perhaps there's no point in talking to you, anyway.

To quote:
" What does it matter whether six million were killed or six thousand? I really don't understand why this is worth arguing.

Posted by Charles Watkins at December 14, 2005 04:53 PM

The number DOES matter. Who today accepts as credible Josephus' figure of the 1 million Jews killed during the Roman war against the Jews of 66 - 70 AD? Almost no-one!!! The "official" figure is usually around 1 tenth of that!!!

Numbers matter!

Why?

Because Jewish credibility matters. If we Jews let the world diminish our suffering (by insidious 'scholarship' and invidious 'revisionism') then within 2 more generations the very event of the Holocaust itself will be questioned. There will be ever so many politically correct do-gooders who will want to erase the use of the term "Holocaust" because of its negative connotations against the German people... and replace it with something innocuous like "inadvertant deaths of civilians in labour camps".
In short, there are already enough Revisionist historians (amongst them, some odious 'useful idiot' self-hating Jews) and Nazi apologists who are all too eager to reduce the magnitude of the Holocaust... and they must not be allowed to do so 'by inches'.
We Jews are a people under siege, on all fronts, bearing up against attacks from the worlds of Academia, Finance, Education, Media and outright Murderous attack.
If we are to retain any credibility with those who hold to the concept of a One True God, then it behoves we who first taught the World of the One True God to defend our own historic truths.

I have a geography book, Van Loon's Geography, Simon & Schuster, dated 1932, that quotes U.N. estimates of the population of various groups around the world. It says:

"... three million Jews..."

= = = = = = =

Yes, even one murder is a horrible crime and a mind-numbing tragedy. Still, when a man commits a murder, we don't accuse him of two, three or six.

= = = = = = =

Where did this six million figure come from in the first place? It was published widely right after the war, right? Surely nobody had time to count.