Doggedly searching for the crux of the biscuit.
'Scuse me?! That's a new one on me. But if this Joseph Wilson outing Karl Rove as Robert Novak's 'Senior Administration Source' story turns out true, it's a MAJOR move on the offensive. And I can't imagine CIA folk don't "choose their words carefully". I also don't imagine they take to kindly to having one of their own "outed".
Ambassador Wilson (2d hand, from 4 sources):
"At the end of the day, it's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words."
I've seen references via Calpundit and Mark Kleiman
Gotta keep digging on this one.
Heh heh. Frog-marched. Heh heh.
Update before I even hit save; quote is about 2/3 down through the transcript.
Heh heh. Frog-marched. Heh heh.
Update 7:45 AM Wed: After finally being able to watch the video (sound card out at the other computer) I would say Wilson doesn't seem to be accusing Rove directly, more stating that he thinks Rove knows who the source is and would love to see him asked by some MiB. But the quote is slam on target; good job, Natasha. here is the long video; "frog marched" quote is at about 3/4 of the way through it. cross reference your status with the transcript linked above.
All this is tea-leaf reading to some extent, but...
Heh heh. Frog marched. Heh heh. Karl Rove. Heh heh.
UPDATE 9/6 11:30 AM:
This link should be taken with several tablespoons of salt. I have no independent verification of it anywhere, but because of the crazy amount of traffic from Googles about Rove, Wilson and the humorous 'Frog Marching' that we're getting I'll put it up anyway. I'm keen to see if anything appears in the Washington Post from the supposed affadavit. There is a linking of Rove to a supposed family member named Roverer who helped build concentration camps in Europe earlier this century. When folks start flying 'Nazi!' accusations around, I get skeptical. When and if this starts to emerge more clearly, I will take this out of the apostropher archives and make a new post.
Heh heh. "Frog Marched!". Heh heh.
Wilson has announced that he will have his private attorneys petition the Department of Justice demanding that Roverer a/k/a Karl Rove be prosecuted under the 1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act .
The investigation held thus far by the State Department's Internal Security (ISD) has stated that Rove did indeed leak the information out about the Ambassador's wife, CIA agent Valerie Wilson, to the Washington Post. Apparently they have an affidavit from the reporter he leaked it to.
But Meanwhile...
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TrackBackWhy the hell this is not a scandal of epic proportions is beyond me: it is juicy and easy to understand: multiple journalists claim someone in the White House intentionally compromised national security to carry out a political vendetta ...
I read Wilson's comment as not necessarily fingering Rove as the source - after all, how would Wilson know what Rove said to someone else? However it's reasonable to believe that if such a thing happened, Rove would likely have been in on it about it, which could be enough for him to be "frog-marched" ...
Posted by: Erik Mattheis at August 27, 2003 01:11 AM"after all, how would Wilson know what Rove said to someone else?" Yeah, I figured on that, too, but remember: This guy is CIA. Spooks tend to know things you wouldn't expect them to, or play people with the way they say it. I'm going to give this a little more time; apparently a few Senators and Representatives are holding pressure on the FBI and CIA to investigate the outing.
Posted by: Froz at August 27, 2003 01:36 AMExact quote is, "I don't think we're going to let this drop. At the end of the day, it's of keen interest to me to see if we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words."
The forum, on a whole is quite partisan. Wilson, though, is measured throughout and didn't milk the audience despite the fact he was cheered like a rock star for a full minute when introduced.
Posted by: Erik Mattheis at August 27, 2003 03:05 AMOops. Wilson wasn't CIA, he was diplomatic corps and just did some work either on the CIA's behalf or request when he went to Niger. Sorry. But State folks probably choose their words even MORE carefully.
Why can't I get the video to run? Any ideas?
Posted by: Froz at August 27, 2003 07:32 AMJust in case someone else needed to look up the term (like me):
Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang:
FROG-MARCH, verb
Especially ‘police.’ to carry (a resisting person) face downward by the arms and legs; (hence now solely) to propel (a resisting person) forward, as by seizing his collar and the seat of his trousers or by pinioning his arms behind his back.
1871 in OED: “They did not give the defendant the frog’s march.”
1873 ‘Slang Dictionary’ by Hotten: “Frog’s March,” the manner in which four or more policemen carry a drunken or turbulent man to the station-house. The victim is held face downwards, one constable being at each shoulder, while the others hold on above the knees. Often...another...officer... beats time...on the recalcitrant hero’s posteriors.
1969 in OEDS: “He. . . took me by the collar and the seat of my pants and frogmarched me the length of the café.”
1992 Newsday (CNN-TV) (Dec. 9): “Tightly bound and frogmarched away.”
Posted by: princeofdirkness at August 27, 2003 03:48 PMI've only been arrested once and was quite cooperative; maybe that explains my ignorance on the matter. Thank you, my prince.
Posted by: froz at August 27, 2003 07:45 PMNot only did Wilson identify Rove, but I've read elsewhere that an internal State Department Investigation concluded that it was Rove based on an affadavit from the reporter.
If this is not enough to throw these hooligans out of the white house I am moving to France!
Posted by: the patriot at September 5, 2003 05:22 PMWhere did you "read elsewhere?"
And if you speak French, can you tell them we're really, really sorry and we'll be more responsible about who we elect President next time?
Posted by: froz gobo at September 6, 2003 11:37 AMSo you all just talk to each other? Don't you ever go fishing?
Posted by: Biff at September 8, 2003 03:04 AMNo one fishes in Quebec. They just cherche pour le biscuit.
Posted by: Linda at September 8, 2003 03:10 AM
You could find it yourself and not have to depend on second-hand news from four sources, if you'd just spend a wee bit of time. But, hey, don't
bother. Just fill up the 'net with crap. Here, I'll help you.
Ambassador Wilson (2d hand, from 4 sources) "At the end of the day, it's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words."
Posted by: ElizabethProctor at September 8, 2003 03:16 AMUm, Elizabeth and your quite silly band,
My question "Where did you read elsewhere?" pertained to the affadavit of which I had not yet heard. It didn't pertain to the "Frog Marched" quote.
The former I subsequently found, and posted with appropriate guidance for my readers to take with a degree - several tablespoons to be exact - of skepticism.
The latter I found on August 26, the day of my original post. It was second hand because I was one of the 250 million plus Americans who was not at Rep. Inslee's discussion that night.
Your trolling is of rather dubious quality, but I encourage you to write back, please, after you've had a few moments to collect your thoughts and write in a not-so-unintelligent manner.
I am adequately cautious about forwarding any information I find on the web because, as reading your comments - well, comment really - has reassured me, there certainly is a lot of crap out there.
Posted by: froz gobo at September 8, 2003 08:29 AMWhat the hell is frog marched? It is not listed in Webster's Dictionary. Maybe it is a new "French Term." He-He.
Posted by: Lisa at September 27, 2003 08:17 AMLisa -
princeofdirkness (the inimitable earthmomma) gives a thorough etymology (not entymology, which is a common misspelling of entomology, and would regard what frogs eat as opposed to how they march) above in the comments. Yes, I was baffled at first, too. Frog Marched. Heh heh. Karl Rove. I still find it very funny.
Posted by: froz gobo at September 27, 2003 12:54 PM